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In Reply to: Elvis Saves? posted by Julie Hoffer on January 28, 1999 at 13:22:01:

OK, Julie, you've brought up the religion subject again, and as usual,
I can't lay off. Many new ideas of how to sneak through heaven's doors were
created during the Renaissance period, including Lutheran and Calvinist belief. That is what started the unrest in Europe and why it went on for so long. People were so used to having one belief for the whole continent (for the most part), that the church was key in going to heaven. When Martin Luther and John Calvin started their groups, many people joined quickly, and the fire spread fast. Debates turned into wars, and people were suddenly split by religion. While America in the 20th century is used to having different religions, Renaissance Europe was not and it was such a revelation and a shock that some of the wars went on for decades. Your little Elvis example makes a funny but good point, that nobody really knows what saves you, and we never really will. I've only heard the term Calvinist in history classes, and that religion is either dead, almost dead, or i don't get out enough. The belief that we are pre-determined doesn't seem plausable to me, what if a mass-muderer/cross burner was pre-destined? Does pre-destination make you a good person or a bad person? And the wealth thing just makes me sick. If you are wealthy, then that is a good sign that you are pre-destined and you will go to heaven? Bullsh**! Will brought up catholic, technically, but with very little church experience, I am intrigued by what Luther has to say. He definitely right about his criticisms of the church selling indulgences and so forth, but was he right about not needing the church to get into heaven. That's interesting. I still believe that if you are a good person, and ask God for your His forgiveness, it doesn't have to be in a church, because although God created Earth, he did not create churches, those are man-made. God should hear your prayer no matter where you are. What does everyone else think? I have t lean towards the Lutheran view as being more right. Anyone else converting religions because of this class? Just kidding....but think about it. Are churches God's house if we built them?

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: OK, Julie, you've brought up the religion subject again, and as usual, : I can't lay off. Many new ideas of how to sneak through heaven's doors were : created during the Renaissance period, including Lutheran and Calvinist belief. That is what started the unrest in Europe and why it went on for so long. People were so used to having one belief for the whole continent (for the most part), that the church was key in going to heaven. When Martin Luther and John Calvin started their groups, many people joined quickly, and the fire spread fast. Debates turned into wars, and people were suddenly split by religion. While America in the 20th century is used to having different religions, Renaissance Europe was not and it was such a revelation and a shock that some of the wars went on for decades. Your little Elvis example makes a funny but good point, that nobody really knows what saves you, and we never really will. I've only heard the term Calvinist in history classes, and that religion is either dead, almost dead, or i don't get out enough. The belief that we are pre-determined doesn't seem plausable to me, what if a mass-muderer/cross burner was pre-destined? Does pre-destination make you a good person or a bad person? And the wealth thing just makes me sick. If you are wealthy, then that is a good sign that you are pre-destined and you will go to heaven? Bullsh**! Will brought up catholic, technically, but with very little church experience, I am intrigued by what Luther has to say. He definitely right about his criticisms of the church selling indulgences and so forth, but was he right about not needing the church to get into heaven. That's interesting. I still believe that if you are a good person, and ask God for your His forgiveness, it doesn't have to be in a church, because although God created Earth, he did not create churches, those are man-made. God should hear your prayer no matter where you are. What does everyone else think? I have t lean towards the Lutheran view as being more right. Anyone else converting religions because of this class? Just kidding....but think about it. Are churches God's house if we built them?

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