The purpose of this page is to gather and organize comments on the proposed "Animation from interactions" (GitHub Issue 18). Comments on GitHub and the email thread on WCAG mailing list fall into the following areas:
Size
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment or Email ID |
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Use percent of visual field on the screen
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The part that I wouldn't know (at first) how to test is "how would I measure 1/3 of a web page view". And while this may be a bit of a tough questions to answer...I bet it is answerable (and maybe...some smart person could up with a tool that helps us consistently and reliable measure this!) Reminds me of the small enough part of flash thresholds. Honestly, every time I read "occupies no more than a total of .006 steradians within any 10 degree visual field on the screen (25% of any 10 degree visual field on the screen) at typical viewing distance" my eyes glaze over and I'm grateful I have not had to measure that yet! general flash and red flash thresholds a flash <https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#flash-def> or rapidly changing image sequence is below the threshold (i.e., content *passes*) if any of the following are true: - there are no more than three *general flashes* and / or no more than three *red flashes* within any one-second period; or - the combined area of flashes occurring concurrently occupies no more than a total of .006 steradians within any 10 degree visual field on the screen (25% of any 10 degree visual field on the screen) at typical viewing distance Rather than 1/3 of the web page...what if you used language like (33% of any 10 degree visual field on the screen)....or whatever the percent would be to address the accessibility barrier that this proposed SC is trying to prevent. |
Glenda Sim | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0142 |
Use >500 CSS PX |
- For the field, perhaps saying something like it has >500 CSS PX again that is fairly arbitrary... but at least measurable. |
David MacDonald | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0147 |
Use CSS pixels (aka David) |
Some quick thoughts on this. (Noticed this in passing) 1) I agree that the animation size needs to be clearly defined. 2) I agree with Patrick that 10 degrees of visual field won’t work you can’t calculate that unless you know a) how far the person is from the screen b) the size of the screen and c) the pixel resolution of the screen d) the scaling of the screen. None of these are known to the author and change from user to user (Most people couldn’t calculate it if they did know those things) 3) You can’t use 1/3 of web page because a web page could be 500 ‘pages’ long so nothing would be 1/3 of it. and you can’t use 1/3 of screen for the same reason as #2 above. 4) I THINK — Doing it in CSS pixels (aka David) is the best bet but remember that a large blinking “O" only changes a relatively small number of pixels -- so you might look at pixel area rather than pixels. |
Gregg C Vanderheiden | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0155 |
Use "viewport size" rather than "web page" |
Apologies, I see that you agreed with "1/3 of the web page" as being baffling in my original email, while I also included (and more so) "33% of any 10 degree visual field on the screen" as a source of bafflement. Taken a step back then, does "visual field on the screen" as in the current WCAG 2.0 definition actually mean, in essence, the overall size of the screen? If so, the suggestion below still stands (referring to "viewport size" rather than "web page") |
Patrick H. Lauke | 11 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0160 |
Use Percentage of overall screen/viewport size. i.e. "more than 1/4 of the viewport" |
What about simply percentage of overall screen/viewport size? It's still an approximation, as some users will be closer/further away from their screen so even the full screen/viewport will in fact occupy different angle of their full field of view, but it's at least something that can be consistently queried and tested (though in context of responsive design, it'll need to be tested for each breakpoint/common device screen resolution). for instance, simply saying "more than 1/4 of the viewport" or similar? | Patrick H. Lauke | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0156 |
Use 1/3 of the screen Not sure 500px works |
Regarding 500px, that's far easier than the general flash and red flash thresholds text, but I'm not sure it is there yet. 500px on a page, assuming you mean total pixels, is about 22px x 23px, around the size of an "M" in a heading. That might be significant on a tiny screen, but on most things we can allow for much more! When reviewing the examples with Nat, whole-screen motion is the biggest issue, tiny animations are not an issue, so we came to about 1/3 of the screen being the point where it can trigger an issue for him. |
Alastair Campbell | 11 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0161 |
Use 1/3 of viewport | Quickfire comment (distilled out from the lengthy sidetrack conversation on the mailing list): I'd replace "...more than 1/3 of the webpage view" with "...more than 1/3 of the viewport" | Patrick H. Lauke | 13 January 2017 | GitHub - 272346989 |
Don't use size as a measure use class of animation | Good point. That parallax scroll would be too specific for an SC is true - one could extend the requirement to any user-initiated animation that affects the entire viewport (or a large part of it) whether it is nauseous shifts, swirls, wobbles, colour changes or some other brainchild of the inventive front end designer. My attempt would be to set this class of animation apart from another class focussing on specific 'elements' (changing shape or position when focussed or moved, disappearing in an inverted Aladdin's lamp fashion in some location, etc). That might alleviate the need to talk about the size of the area affected, which in the absence of further information on the nature of the movement seems inconclusive. | Detlev Fischer | 14 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0264 |
Parallax scrolling usually invovles the full viewport. Dissallow it or provide mechanism
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Just reading through this thread - if the main user issue in user-initiated animation is really parallax scrolling, can we not focus on that - assuming that it will mostly involve the entire viewpoint - and demand that it’s either avoided or, when used, there are UA, or a11y-supported common browser or site settings available that will disable parallax scrolling? Regarding other smaller animations, it will be very difficult to define / quantify the type of animation and in turn how distracting it may be - on a continuous scale from slow / subtle / hardly noticeable and not a problem at all, to really annoying |
Detlev Fischer | 14 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0262 |
Keep the language general | I'd say the danger of just saying, to simplify, "don't do parallax scrolling or provide a mechanism to turn it off" is that it's overly specific. What if an author, instead of parallax scrolling, does something else (but equally animated and disruptive, like a big zoom-in effect or similar)? Then it would pass the SC, but still cause issues. Keeping the language more general will help cover these scenarios too. | Patrick H. Lauke | 14 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0263 |
Use whole viewport? |
On 14/01/2017 16:11, Detlev Fischer wrote: So just the whole viewport, and not "1/3 of the viewport"? > whether it is nauseous shifts, swirls, wobbles, colour changes or Though you're talking about the entire viewport, so you ARE specifying a size. > which in the absence of further But agree, would like to see some empirical evidence of different types of animations and how they can be disruptive/problematic. |
Patrick H. Lauke | 14 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0267 |
1/3 of the webpage view" difficult to measure |
I'm a little concerned that "1/3 of the webpage view" is a tough way to measure parallax, which I believe is one of THE biggest culprits here. |
Mike Gower | 16 January 2017 | GitHub - 272898036 |
"1/3 of the viewport" accurate definition |
surely classic parallax scrolling affects the entire viewport, so crosses the "1/3 of the viewport" (using the more accurate definition here rather than "webpage view") with ease? |
Patrick H. Lauke | 16 January 2017 | GitHub - 272899799 |
agrees with parallax exceeds the 1/3 of viewport | While an individual element may take up less than 1/3 the viewport in a parallax animation, it's the combination of elements that cause the problem, so I would agree that parallax exceeds the 1/3 of viewport point. | Nat Astor | 16 January 2017 | GitHub - 272901141 |
Uae 1/2 of the viewport | I think merely from a testing standpoint, the easiest would be to say "at least 1/2 of the viewport". That would be easy to establish visually im most cases Depending on the type of animation it might still need a reference viewport size (such as 1280 x 768px) at which the SC is found to fail if animation indeed affects only part of the viewport ... Even if we get empirical evidence, types of animation can be so different that we will never be able to drwaw the line would qualify as problematic from a user perspective. Take two hypothetical cases: (1) As the user moves the mouse, vivid pumping bubbles appear and disappear around it (I hope no one will get the idea to actually build this). The total surface area of animation at any time is well below 1/3 of the viewport, but the animation is highly disruptive and irritating. (2) A script changes the background of the page slowly and almost imperceptively from a light grey to a light greyish mint tone then to a pale tea tint and back to light grey. Contrast to text is always OK. There IS an animation, it affects the entire viewport, but some might not even notice it and few would find it disruptive. Going for 'percentage of viewport affected' alone to make this SC "objectively, replicably testable" we would fail to take into account the actual disruptive quality of the animation. Having said that, I fear that any attempt to nail down further criteria beyond 'percentage of viewport affected' will be hard to interpret in testing (especially as many aspects of moving content will be difficult to measure) and probably miss all sorts of real life instances because they will often not fall neatly under what we meant to capture. So homing in on parallax (maybe describing it in a more abstract fashion, e.g. "presence of miore than one layer moving at different speed or/and in different direction) would at least nail down *some issues* that we know are problematic. The alternative might be to say "Sorry, nice SC, but unfortunately not testable". |
Detlev Fischer | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0280 |
Agrees: a third or a half of the viewport | Either a third or a half of the viewport would be a good metric for me. |
Alastair Campbell | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0281 |
Duration
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment ID |
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3 second lower threshold (prefers less) |
I didn't include time as a factor in my survey. Pushing my personal feelings and experiences aside, I think animation settling by 3 seconds makes sense (I prefer less, but I'm an extreme case). |
Nat Astor | 10 January 2017 | GitHub - 271683718 |
3 second lower threshold- if it stops in 3 seconds it would pass |
the 3 second was actually a lower threshold proposal instead of 1 second. In other words if it stops in 3 seconds it would pass the SC. Or maybe 2 seconds... this would allow for transitions etc. which are entrenched on the web, forbidding fades etc and will likely cause push back... |
David MacDonald | 10 January 2017 | GitHub - 271669181 |
2 seconds threshold |
- I would say 2 seconds threshold, so any animation less than 2 seconds passes, allowing most CSS transitions, which are an important design paradigm. |
David MacDonald | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0147 |
longer than 3 seconds that can’t be stopped |
I wouldn't ban it - but rather ban anything the has a duration longer than say three seconds that can’t be stopped. Such animations are very useful for directing attention for people with cognitive disabilities. Also important sometimes for warnings. |
Gregg C Vanderheiden | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0155 |
We are defining a *lower* limit |
Regarding significant animation: please remember that it is aimed at things like parallax ("triggered by a user action"), so we are defining a *lower* limit so we can ignore quick animations, not an upper one like the current animation SC. Nat explained that he uses a 'long blink' to cope with auto-scrolls and similar whole-page movement that he isn't controlling, so the 1 second came from there. His follow up [1] indicates a longer time might be ok, but we are lacking wider scale research. Parallax (in most cases) lasts as long as you scroll it, there is no pre-set time for it, but you can't avoid it either. |
Alastair Campbell | 11 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0161 |
3 seconds |
@alastc I think as per @nattarnoff above mentioned Let's set the threshold to 3 seconds not 1 second. That will allow most CSS transitions and save a lot of testing time, which of course would focus on a stop watch an a 1 second boundary. Also incorporating Patrick's suggestions. |
David MacDonald | 13 January 2017 | GitHub - 272467882 |
Separate duration and size. Use an "OR". |
I wanted to express my concern with the threshold. Here's the issue: how can time be used as a measure to capture failure when the animation 'response' only lasts as long as the user action. In other words, if I don't ever scroll for 3 seconds straight, I would never trigger enough animation to fail the threshold. That is true not matter what the time threshold is set at, so I'm concerned that it is part of a 4-part AND statement to reach failure. What would happen if the third parameter "the animation takes more than 1 second and affects more than 1/3 of the webpage view" became 2 different items, and you put an OR in: The wording is awkward and imperfect, but hopefully you get the idea I'm trying to cover and we can improve -- if the animation is continuous for as long as the user action takes place (i.e., parallax while scrolling) than it shouldn't matter what its duration is. |
Mike Gower | 16 January 2017 | GitHub - 272898036 |
PS can be stopped/last a lot less than 3 seconds | excellent point about animations that are continuous for the duration of the interaction. in theory, they can be stopped/last a lot less than 3 seconds purely by virtue of the user stopping to scroll | Patrick H. Lauke | 16 January 2017 | GitHub - -272900220 |
Color
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment ID |
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Are color change triggered by scroll covered in SC? | As to example 2, you are right of course, but the colour change could quite easily be triggered by scrolling as on this site (scroll right to the bottom):
https://www.muenchner-kammerspiele.de/en |
Detlev Fischer | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0283 |
probably not cover color changes without movement | I’m not sure if we /should/ be trying to cover colour changes (without movement), that hasn’t come up in the examples of triggering animation, so probably not. | Alastair Campbel | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0284 |
rapid changes would qualify | Alastair Campbell schrieb am 16.01.2017 12:29: > I’m not sure if we /should/ be trying to cover colour changes (without I guess it would depend on how disruptive the colour change is - imagine scrolling would start rapid changes that would even qualify as a flicker. We would want to catch this (although this is unlikely to be used unless the designer is bent on irritating users). |
Detlev Fischer | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/02868 |
Definitions
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment ID |
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2 seconds & 500 CSS pixels |
I don't know but if the definition is for "significant animation" perhaps we shouldn't use "animation" in the definition also, so maybe for the first draft something like. Significant animation: Movement which continues for more than 2 seconds, and occupies more than 500 CSS pixels on the webpage. |
David MacDonald | 10 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0152 |
3 seconds & 1/3 of viewport |
Significant animation: animation which continues for more than 3 seconds, and affects more than 1/3 of the viewport. |
David MacDonald | 13 January 2017 | GitHub - 272467882 |
Research
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment ID |
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Nat's user survey results |
A high summary is:
...Additionally, accessible animation doesn't help just people with vestibular disorders. Poorly used animation has a tremendous impact on people with autistic, ADHD, PTSD, migraine & headaches, mental illness, epilepsy, and low vision or blindness. In fact, in my survey, motion sickness, vertigo, and vestibular disorders only made up 14% of respondents. Because of how animation is usually coded, screen reader users are large group that ANY animation can prevent an accessible experience. The combination of trying to hit higher frame rates and using display:none makes most content unreadable. |
Nat Astor | 10 January 2017 | GitHub - 271683718 |
Video from a user with vestibular disability and examples triggers | If you’d like to hear from the horse’s mouth (so to speak), I recommend this interview: Here are some examples, TRIGGER WARNING for people with vestibular disorders! |
Alastair Campbell | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0281 |
2 people in a general parallax scrolling usability study experienced motion sickness |
A general 2015 parallax scrolling usability study turned up a couple of people who experienced motion sickness. The Effects of Parallax Scrolling on User Experience in Web Design By Dede Frederick, James Mohler, Mihaela Vorvoreanu, Ronald Glotzbach states:
|
Laura Carlson | 17 January 2017 | GitHub -273131822 |
Techniques
Summary | Comment | Commenter | Date | Comment ID |
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omrijs | Possible Future Technique: Switch for letting the user control animation on a site. | Laura Carlson | 14 December 2016 | GitHub - 267117554 |
Personalization | Anything which could be addressed by personalisation will overlap with #6, but this one could be avoided by not using animation, or addressed by means other than personalisation. (I.e. personalisation might be an answer, but this is the problem statement.) | Alastair Campbell | 18 December 2016 | GitHub - 268004684 |
Gear icon or button |
It will cause many web sites to have to create a gear icon, or another button in addition to a "Pause" button on a carousel. One big thing is how to create a button that doesn't eat expensive real estate, that is easily understood. Is there an icon that people with vestibular disabilities would have? Does the dev add a button on the $50 million "above the fold" part of the page <button>Stop all animation on this site</button> |
David MacDonald | 10 January 2017 | GitHub - 271669181 |
Explicit control | The way this is put ("whilst still performing the same action") makes me wonder how you would stop it in the middle of the action, i.e. when you notice it - an explicit control as in G186 would likely have to be at the top to be noticed (and we know that often it won't be noticed even then). Interesting to see what techniques we will come up with. |
Detlev Fischer | 16 January 2017 | 2017JanMar/0283 |